Hi, friends. Late last week, I had a lovely chat with
that I’m so excited to share with you today. In September of this past year, Jennifer published Honeymoon at Sea: How I Found Myself Living on a Small Boat [Bookshop*]. Honeymoon at Sea is a lighthearted, fun read about Jennifer’s first foray into sailboat living— by way of an extended honeymoon with her husband, Russel— that’s perfect for easing into summer. But instead of returning to life on land after their first adventure, Jennifer and Russel decided to keep the honeymoon going… for 35 years, in fact!Jennifer and I first connected right here on Substack, and Jennifer graciously sat down to chat with me not only about her book, but also about what it’s like to live tiny, and what lessons the rest of us can take from her journey. Our conversation covers a lot of ground, from community to presence, small-space living, and conquering what Jennifer calls “the monkey brain.” You can listen to the entire interview here:
Here is also the transcript of our conversation, condensed and edited for clarity.
Jennifer Newton: It’s an absolute pleasure to talk to you! To start off, could you just tell us a little bit about yourself?
Jennifer Silva Redmond: Sure. So I was living in New York City. I was being an actor, meaning I was waiting tables and occasionally getting acting work and studying. And I went back to San Diego at Christmas to see my family and I ran into an old flame, Russel, and he and I started talking and we went out, you know, blah, blah, blah. A lot happened. And literally like four days later, we went sailing with my brother and his new wife. And a couple hours later, Russell proposed and I thought, this is either the craziest thing I've ever done or the most just perfect thing. And we both have said later, like it didn't seem crazy to either of us.
So we decided to get married. I really knew that he meant it when he said he would move to New York City rather than me having to move back to San Diego. But then our idea was before we go to New York, we would take his sailboat down to Mexico and that would act as our honeymoon, spend a couple months in Baja, California, and then continue on to New York City where we would have the boat and we would, you know, have our life where he was an illustrator and an artist.
And I didn't know anything at all about sailing. I had literally been on a boat a handful of times. I'd been on that boat overnight, you know, a couple of times.
So we took off like six months later and we sailed down to to Baja and had this incredible few months. And as we kept traveling, we just kept saying, this is what we should be doing. It was a wonderful muse for Russel for painting, because he was painting these wonderful land and seascapes. And I had always loved writing, so I started painting and journaling, then turning these things into stories and articles and essays. So we just kept sailing, and saying, “okay, we’ll just eat more rice and beans.”
And it ended up being a year in Baja. And then we did go through the Panama Canal, but we never did go to New York. We just kept sailing. And we ended up back in Baja. you know, years later. And then since then we've been sailing up and down the coast of California and we're now in Washington state on our boat in Puget Sound.
So it just, the lifestyle became something that we just loved and it was very fertile, you know, for a couple of artistic people. And I really, you know, never kind of looked back as far as being a writer and, and then my day job is editing books. So that kind of played into it as well.
Jennifer Newton: Right. So at this point you've lived with Russell on a boat for more than 30 years.
Jennifer Silva Redmond: Believe it or not, our 35th wedding anniversary is Monday. And tomorrow's my 63rd birthday. Why did we get so married so close to my birthday? I have no idea, but it just worked out that way. It was Memorial Day weekend in 1989 as well.
But the lifestyle is something that’s become— addictive isn’t the right word. That just sounds like such a negative, but it's just, it's so compelling to be traveling in your own home. Everybody that's done the tiny home on wheels knows that. But also for those of us that have lived on a boat or in an RV or whatever you just, because every day you're out there in this different place. And then of course the challenge of living in that tiny space.
Jennifer Newton: Right, absolutely. So the challenge of that tiny space is really interesting. And I think a lot of what you're describing is this relatively nomadic life, right? Being able to pick up the boat, and go wherever you want, whenever. What's been like really easy or really difficult about this for you?
Jennifer Silva Redmond: Well, back then, I think it was mostly all easy certainly in the beginning, because one, I had been living in New York City for eight years.
So I'm a California girl. So I was, I was very much missing the beach, the sun, the sand and nature. You know, when you live in Manhattan, you know, you might get away for a day. Basically, you're in the concrete jungle, right? So it was wonderful to all of a sudden be on a boat out in the middle of in this incredibly beautiful place.
And of course, back then we didn't have email. We didn't even have a ham radio. It was all very, very basic. So, but we made friends along the way. And I think you and I talked about this, you know, that this community that we discovered out there was one of the real incredible gifts that I had no idea of. And those people, some of the people we met on that first trip have, have stayed friends for 30 years. And, you know, we still know them to this day. We just ran into one up here in Pacific Northwest that we went through the Panama Canal with. And I mean, what are the odds, but it just happens.
As far as now, I mean, it's still hard to keep in touch in the same way that you do if you're living in the same town or city with somebody, but as we all know, post 2020, we can keep up relationships, you know, via Zoom and email, Instagram, and chit chats.
But we, we wrote letters back then, and people would send packages, which was really fun, like a care package full of New Yorker magazines. We were starved for anything written in English.
Jennifer Newton: I bet it was fun to figure out where to pick up those packages.
Jennifer Silva Redmond: Yes, exactly. And I, when I was a little kid, one of the things that may have laid the groundwork for this is my mom really wanted to travel. So my parents had divorced amicably and we all lived in the same town and my dad worked for the airlines. So my mom suggested she take us three kids to Europe and dad could come visit us there when he had time.
We were all under age 12. I was like nine and took us to Europe for a summer and we backpacked all over Europe and did all these, you know, very kind of hippie 1970 things at the time. But it just seemed normal to me because my family had always traveled.
So I think that being raised that way, it wasn't quite the shock as if somebody had lived in a house on the same street forever suddenly went off on a boat. But we’d go to American Express offices all over— that’s a thing people your age may not even remember— to get a money order and cash it into pesetas or whatever you needed. It was just very different than it is now. And on the first trip, we actually, in Russell and I traveling in Mexico, we didn't have ATM cards, neither one of us had a credit card. We just used traveler's checks, which now seems so quaint.
Jennifer Newton: I remember in your book talking about how you were able to access your savings account.
Jennifer Silva Redmond: Right. We got on a bus and traveled up to San Diego after 20 hours on a bus and went to our bank. It was such an adventure. That trip on the bus was something I wasn't loving it at the time, but looking back, what an adventure to hurdle down Baja, California on a bus.
Jennifer Newton: So in your book, you also talk about what you call a monkey brain. This monkey brain is constantly thinking— inventing problems or trying to solve them. My first thought was really just how much of this monkey brain is occupied by things that don't matter. And I think that that's different for everybody. For some people, it’s advertising pressure from corporations, for others it’s judgement or the opinions of others. What is it that you personally have felt pressure from the monkey brain and how do you handle that?
Jennifer Silva Redmond: Wow, such a big, such a big, small question, such a very simple, easy to answer, but difficult to answer question. I had read a little bit of zen books that talked about meditation or whatever to try and shut off this monkey mind, which is always trying to kind of kidnap your thoughts, or make you believe that you are your thoughts.
But traveling by boat is, on one hand, incredibly slow, and people will say boring. But you’re never bored because you’re constantly taking in the view and the surroundings and everything that’s going on keeps you in the moment.
And I talked in the book about walking meditation and how being in the moment and just walking, not thinking about what you’re doing, but just being what you’re doing.
I talked in the book a lot about my acting teacher, Warren, who said most of us are walking around as crazy people. Because craziness is defined by not being where you are. If you’re sitting there all the time going, “oh, when my mother said that to me, that ruined my life.” "Or, “when this or that happened when I was five”… you know we’re constantly living in the past or in the future. Someday I’ll be happy when this happens, when I have this much money or this much acclaim or this much success, then I can be happy. So we spend all this time somewhere that isn't right now.
And just trying to bring yourself back to that right now is, of course, the challenge that, because monkey mind doesn't want to be left without a job or be kicked out of your head.
Jennifer Newton: There’s this quote [by Byron Katie, here] that is basically, we spend so much of our lives in other people’s business. If I’m worrying about what someone else will do, that’s their business. If I’m worrying about what ifs, that’s God’s business. And it doesn’t have to be explicitly religious in nature, just it’s something outside of my control.
Jennifer Silva Redmond: Yep. I grew up with, you know of course a lot of people have heard the serenity prayer, you know, the things I can change and the things I can't. My grandmother used to say, “let go and let God.” But worrying is also like putting money in the bank for something that you don't want to buy. And you think what if this happened, or that happened? And eventually you are investing in a future that you don’t even want. So I just try to invest in the bank account instead that says “I’m relaxed, I’m here right now.” But it’s a practice.
Jennifer Newton: So your book isn't really at all about consumerism, although you do reference it in the final chapter. As an occupational hazard, I can’t help but read the entire book through that lens. How do you decide beyond the absolute essentials what you bring into your life?
Jennifer Silva Redmond: Of course. Of course. Really not much gets brought on the boat, but the essentials. People often times have a hard time conceiving of how small a 26 foot boat is. I was actually working with my editor for months, and then she saw a picture and was like, “OH! This boat was really small.” And I was like, well, yeah, that’s what I’ve being trying to say. I mean, Russel couldn’t stand up in it, the ceiling was that low. And my grandmother actually asked if Russel measured me, because my head was literally at the ceiling, and I’m 5’3".
I kept bringing books on board because I'm an editor and I work with authors, and people would give me books, and Russel would be like, “Okay, great. Which book are you getting rid of?” And it feels like I’m talking about something so specificc, but in a way, it’s a perfect metaphor for everything that comes on the boat. Is this something that can be brought on a different way? For books, obviously, it could be an e-book, or Kindle, or audiobook. But in terms of things, I find myself amazed at how much stuff people buy on any given day, that they just are buying it completely on a whim.
Like the idea that we need to have t-shirts in every color of the rainbow, or 17 pairs of jeans. I live and work and walk and exercise in one pair of sneakers, and when they wear out I try to get them re-soled. But the idea that I need a pair of Topsiders for when I’m on the boat is just something that’s been sold to me. I don't need the boat shoes that look like boat shoes.
Jennifer Newton: I think it really helps that you have this really defined space. If you don't have a lot of space, then you've got some serious limits on like what you can do with your space, whether it's a boat or a small home.
Jennifer Silva Redmond: Very much so. It really is oddly a gift, because if you live in a huge house and you have rooms that you can turn into storage, and a garage that can be filled with boxes of things, it’s easier to put that decision off. Whereas I have to go, I either have to pay to have this in a storage unit that isn’t even handy, or it has to fit on this boat.
We've lived on land briefly and we always fall into that habit of just getting more stuff. Even if it's just a few weeks that we're on land, it's like, where'd all this stuff come from?
Jennifer Newton: That's so funny. You referenced a few times, too, the sense of a sharing economy, which I think probably really helps with that small space. This was not only informal generosity among boaters, but also systems for lending things like books. And of course, on land we have libraries, and other institutional ways of lending. But I don't often get the same sense of just generosity amongst stranger necessarily. What can those of us who live kind of more immediately surrounded by this culture of individualism learn from this sub-set of boating culture?
Jennifer Silva Redmond: Yeah, I think a lot of that comes from being so far out there in some bay. Even if you went to the nearest town, you could look all day to try and find a tool you needed and not find it. So if you mentioned something breaking, somebody would offer theirs up, just saying, you know, I don’t need that anymore and I’ll just give it to you.
What I'm finding really encouraging and a positive evolution with people your age is more people sharing spaces. Things like co-working spaces, instead of everybody paying to have their own office and own electricity bill. And certainly things like Lyft and Uber, or Turo, where you use your own car and loan your car to others.
But there’s this communal sense of, why does everybody need to have a truck? Because once a month, maybe, it gets used as a truck, and the rest of the time it’s just a big gas guzzling car, which makes no sense for anyone. But I definitely see it becoming more typical that you can go to Home Depot or U-Haul or wherever and rent a truck when you need it, instead of committing to an albatross around your neck that may not help you 365 days a year.
And, and of course, you know, if you go back to the sixties and seventies, when I was a little kid, you know, everywhere we went that people were, especially young people were getting together was that sense of community.
Jennifer Newton: I think what's interesting to is a lot of what you're referencing is actually part of the formal economy now, rather than just informal sharing.
Jennifer Silva Redmond: True. Of course, there’s a lot of sharing that goes on, whether people call it communes or whether they call it being roommates, because who can afford $3,000 a month for a one-bedroom apartment?
But it’s also, how does society make this a thing? We’re a capitalist society, so [businesses] immediately figure out how to do it. But is that such a bad thing? It doesn't matter to me if I have to pay a couple dollars more to go on a Lyft car or a Turo car or whatever because I'm helping them to make this available to me and to others.
I know you talk about this a lot, when we vote with our pocketbook. When we go to the sotre, and they have something organic but we don’t buy it, we’re just saying, “I believe in it, kind of, but I’m not willing to pay that extra 50 cents a pound.” No, I’ve got to be willing to say I want cleaner products and less packaging.
Jennifer Newton: Right! The packaging that we use for 10 seconds. That’s a great segue into my next question. A few months ago, I posted an article about how activism happens even in the quiet. And I was so struck by your response, which I'll go ahead and share here:
Just returned to our boat home from our favorite local restaurant, which we love supporting. Our solar panels are running the lights and charging my phone as I read. We keep trying to do more, but often it feels like not enough.
What was so interesting to me about that comment is that for many people, living off renewable energy in a small boat, or, like you just mentioned, these intentional choices to buy organic, or less toxic, or less packaging— those are really big steps for a lot of people. But it's undoubtedly moving more lightly through Earth than many of us. How did you reach this issue of sustainability as a personal conviction, and has it informed your decision to keep boating, or is it just a side benefit?
Jennifer Silva Redmond: I think it's a big part of, I mean, for me, it's definitely a big part of my choice to continue boating.I love leaving a very light footprint. I love being able to go and visit these beautiful places and not leave them any worse.
Now I certainly have to make a a disclaimer that we are not always living off the grid completely. We do come into during the wintertime to Fort Townsend, with the boat in the slip, or we’re often in San Diego in the winter tied up to the dock and plugged into shore power. But it’s not running a lot of stuff. And it’s an incredibly small footprint as far as the natural resources that we’re using, because we don’t own a car
I'm constantly thinking, this is good, but how can I do a little better? How we choose to eat, how we choose to shop, can we re-sole that pair of shoes or put that button on? I’m surprised that people will throw something out because a thread comes loose. I love going to the secondhand store and finding a treasure that somebody else got rid of that can become mine for a year or two or three, and then it can be donated again.
The world is full of need, obviously, but there’s also creativity, like, how can I make that a little easier? Individualism is a double edged sword, because when we feel we are the important person, we aren’t really part of a town, community, country, etc. because it’s just this idea that I’m here to get the most for me. But if you start looking for community, that community gets bigger and friendlier and friendlier. And trading and volunteering goes into that as well.
Jennifer Newton: Right. Like using our resources— time, energy, money— to make the world better around us.
Jennifer Silva Redmond: Exactly. And you also have to be able to say, you know what, I did good today. I didn’t waste this, or I didn’t buy something I didn’t need.
Jennifer Newton: Yes! Perfect is the enemy of better. You don’t want to spend so much time beating yourself up over a mistake that you forget the ten decisions that were good. And these habits are also the kinds of things that get easier the more you practice.
Jennifer Silva Redmond: Absolutely. Perfect is the enemy of good is one of my all time favorites. And for example, the water that comes out of my kitchen sink is powered by a foot pump, which the first few times you do, it seems like really hard, you know, like, oh, I have to push, put my foot down to pump the water out.
I don't think of it at all now. And to me, it seems crazy that people have sinks that don't have a foot pump. Because you're constantly wasting all that water as you reach over for something while the water is just running. I’m sure, especially with the way the water situation is going in America, and certainly in the West Coast, that more people will start installing foot pumps. It’s just logical, like water capture— a friend of mine in Berkeley starting putting buckets in their kitchen sink and bathtub when they were getting the water hot, then they use that water for their garden. It’s not hard. But it’s making those choices that make you think, “Hey, I’m part of the solution.”
Jennifer Newton: Absolutely. So I’ll leave you with just a couple of final questions. At this point, what stories are you most wanting to tell? And how would you suggest that people connect with you? Obviously, read your book— it’s fantastic— but beyond that?
Jennifer Silva Redmond: One of the things I'm really excited about right now is Substack. I think it’s this perfect metaphor, if you will, for exactly what we’ve been talking about— take out the middleman, without everyone having to reinvent the wheel with their own website. Recommendations are great, because it’s this process of being able to help each other. And I love that when the water rises, all the boats float.
Jennifer Newton: It's a great example of generosity of our time and energy, because it doesn’t feel as competitive. Like I can recommend this person who is also great and that doesn’t mean that I’m not.
Jennifer Silva Redmond: Right. And when people love it, they'll spread the word. I love writing about what I do and where we travel, I'm looking forward to traveling this summer and not just being in the boatyard, which is what I've been writing about, but also writing about The things that I've been trying to do to market a book because people are constantly like, how do you do that anymore? My book was published by a small, women-owned independent publisher up in Toronto, and I love them. But I don’t have Simon Schuster or whatever behind me, so I have to get out there and hustle, but it’s fun.
And everything that you get if you Google Honeymoon at Sea will be either my Substack, the book, or me talking about the book somewhere. Or it'll be somewhere in Fiji that they want you to go on your honeymoon. But I’m also on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok (handle Jenny Redbug). But
on Substack is probably the easiest way to find me and read some of my writing.Thank you, Jennifer!
*Bookshop link is an affiliate link. Of course, you can also find Honeymoon at Sea at your local library or anywhere books are sold. :)
What a pleasure it was to talk about our life with you. Thanks for letting me be a part of your wonderful project.